Ethnography - Interview #4 Transcription

LEGEND-->	:: I == Interviewer	::E == Interviewee

I: So I'll get started with uh... asking... what is your occupation?
E: I'm a doctor of physical therapy.
I: Oh, cool. How long have you been doing that for?
E: Uhmm... About three years...?
I: Okay, what got you into that?
E: That's a good question, yo... ah... back when I met'chu... I was actually a broker in Manhattan doing mostly residential real estate.
I: Okay.
E: But... uhm... I dunno. I always kinda had a... My eye on physical therapy... I've always been real big into wellness, and the body, and healing, and fitness, so... Starting where I guess it was about eight years ago I just said, 'Let me just take the plunge.', and I went back to school, did all of my science pre-reqs... and... just really wanted to try something that I felt was more of a challenge for me to use my brain and... ultimately be in a capacity where I could... heal people. So...
I: Okay, understood. 
E: I went out to Houston and got my... my doctorate out there for it.
I: This is three years ago?
E: To the East Coast... Uh... I graduated three years ago.
I: Oh okay, congratulations! Kinda late but still.
E: Thank you, thank you! And so now, you know... I got back to Newark, I'm in Jersey. I was working at different hospitals, working at different clinics and ultimately I had no idea but I found my niche-- my passion, working with... pretty much babies. I do early intervention... for the state, so I work with uhm... children 0-3 that have like... various different developmental delays or other pathologies and I travel to their homes and daycares and work with them throughout the week so it's pretty... pretty different.
I: So you meet the people before they're people.
E: Right.
I: Because they're dev... yeah, that's pretty cool, man 'cuz  like... Like... Kids have no... I guess inhibitions and stuff like that so they tell you how it is and...
E: Absolutely.
I: Very interesting to see how they interact with the world when everything is new to them.
E: Right.

I: So when was the last time you did something for the first time?
E: The last time I did something for the first time? That's a good question... Uhmmm... Man... That's a great question... The last time I did something for the first time... MAN! Mmmm...... You got me stumped!
I: Ah man...
E: Uhm...
I: Anytime I think of this question, I always refer to a... this Jay-Z track off of... I think it was... I forgot which album it was actually owh... on... He says... He says, 'No two days are alike except the first and fifteenth, pretty much.' So I always look for something new in a day that I haven't done previously.
E: Right! I mean the goal is definitely do something new everyday!
I: Yeahhh...
E: Uhm... I mean, I just... I just got back from Mexico. Never been there before!
I: Where'dju... Where'd you go in Mexico?
E: Uh, went to... We flew into Cancun; We went to Playa Del Carmen. Which was the fist time I was there. We stayed at... a resort right on the beach but it was... we got there three days after a hurricane had hit it pretty badly, so luckily we missed that but... half the... resort was damaged from the hurricane so a lot of it was closed and then it all day everyday for the first... more than half the trip that we're there, so... it was still pretty...
I: Had a good time, nonetheless!
E: Yeah, still a good time. It was-- because of all that and because of the current situation with COVID and everything, it was pretty empty which is cool. You know, usually when you go somewhere like that it's gonna be packed so... the fact it was kinda empty, it was just really relaxin'... an' uhm... they weren't really trippin' on wearing your mask at all times all around the resort, although the staff was pretty much wearing theirs because... it was the policy that was handed down to them for the higher up.

I: Do you consider yourself to be a cup half-full or half-empty kind of person? 
E: Definitely half full.
I: Okay, good. And... I was gonna ask if you travel often.
E: I do! I mean this put some damper on my plans because I was supposed to go on a cruise prolly a week after the initial shutdown and that was canceled but I still managed to make it to... Cali back in July to see my mom. I was in Chicago recently, and I was just in Mexico... going to... Dominican Republic next week. Typically I would've traveled more in the next year... had this... not been going on.
I: Do you speak any other languages?
E: Yeah, I speak Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese.
I: Oh yeah? Cool.

I: So how do you feel about wearing masks?
E: I don't like it!
I: Oh, why not?
E: I don't like it. Well, you know, being that I am a healthcare professional and I did work in many hospitals and work in many hospitals and go through years of rigorous training... I find that we're not being told that we're being told masks for the right reasons... at all. You know, I don't feel like it's for our health, I feel like it's for control because the way you're supposed to wear a mask if you're worried about contamination is to... have the area clean at all times and not touch your face and when you change different rooms, for the most part-- you take the mask off then you put on a new one at a certain time if you need a new one. But... for instance, when we go to the airport... immediately TSA says pull your mask down; So right now we've touched it with our hands that we didn't just clean prior to doing that to show them our face. Then they said put it back on and now we're entering an airport with people... tens of thousands of people that are gonna be getting on a plane close to other people that are going to be going to all different parts of the world. So... it just makes absolutely no sense to me. Never at one point are people saying, 'Clean your mask.', or 'Make sure your mask is clean.', they just want something on ya face! So to me it just feels more like a symbolic form of control than actually preventing the spread of something through safetier health measures.
I: Okay, is there any alternative that you can think of to wearing masks that would protect people?
E: I mean the concept of social distancing, especially when you're having symptoms... is fair. I think large gatherings of people... when there is a huge pandemic going on, I think is fair to... fair to curve that. So for instance I was just on a plane when I first started traveling earlier in the year, they were doing every other seat. Now they're obviously filling every seat because it's... it's profit thing. You know? Obviously they've lost a lot of money so... they've been doing a lot of studies and they're making those studies available to see... Once you get on the plane, they're telling you about them. It's on the apps and everything. They're telling you now that it's virtually impossible to spread COVID on an airplane. But... how does that make any sense if you're jam packed in a tight little area for this many hours with people that... okay, yes. They're told to wear a mask but when they're eating or drinking, they're pulling that mask off with their hands which means they're contaminating it and now the mask if off and they're that close to each other... It's almost like if you can't spread COVID on an airplane, where can you spread it? You know... so there's just... it's just so many inconsistencies and contradictions... from the start.
I: Yeah.
E: And that... and the biggest thing is like... at a... pretty early on it was almost the... virus itself was almost politicized. You know? So it was almost like depending on... what thoughts you're having or feelings you had about it or where your stance was, you were picking a political party which was so... re... weird! And that was... and that whole line of thought was just kind of... perpetuated. 

I: Okay... Have you encountered anyone enforcing you to wear a mask? Like... 
E: Absolutely.
I: ... Have you walked down the street and they're like, 'Hey, put your mask on!'?
E: Absolutely. Absolutely, I mean I've... you know... So I... I go-- enter people's homes. So I'm supposed to wear a mask. Everyone in the home when I'm in the home is supposed to wear a mask if they're three years or above. So... On the airplane, you know, I fell asleep. My mask must've fell down just under my nose; Somebody woke me up-- said I gotta it above my nose. I was in a Uber one time, I think the mask might've slipped under my nose; I was reported by the driver-- he didn't say anything to me but I got a message from the app, that they had locked my account-- I couldn't use it again until I uploaded a picture of me with my mask on correctly.
I: Whaaat!?
E: My building! My building! My building I live in has signs everywhere, you have to wear a mask. So they want me wearing a mask when I enter my building, when I walk downstairs to check my mail... or... if I'm in the lobby... It's... it's gettin' intense. And like you said, you know, people are enforcin' it and people are getting angry and hostile towards other people who don't have it on. 
I: Yeah.
E: Like I said it's not... the mask, you know and if you got to a restaurant or whatever... they're telling you, you gotta... So some restaurants literally are telling you that you gotta have your mask on when you enter the restaurant; Your table might be three feet from the entrance-- gotta have your mask on, as soon as you get to the table, take your mask off. But they don't care if it's clean!  They don't care if your, you know... you could have blood on your mask! 
I: Yeahhh...
E: Nobody knows, nobody cares... it's just this whole concept of, 'Oh... the ma...'. And I hear a old lady the other day say, 'Oh, I got my mask on; I'm safe!', so it's like this false sense of security.
I: Yeah.
E: Ya know?
I: Yeah, I definitely understand. And I've actually seen some videos that were sent to me of people on airplanes getting into fights and stuff with the staff and other people on the airplane because they're not wearing masks.
E: There was of... there was a family of... there was a family of eight on my last flight earlier this week that was kicked off the plane. Supposedly one of the guys, it was a Dominican family supposedly. One of the guy, I dunno... I say supposedly because I was right there... I... I don't know how it started but eventually they ended up making an announcement to the airplane to the airplane-- that's what had happen-- I don't know if that's what had happened but supposedly they claim that there was a dispute with him wearing his mask; He had his mask on so I don't... that's why I say supposedly but... they say supposedly there was a dispute with him wearing his mask and they take it very seriously and they were...  escorted off the plane. I mean it got-- it almost got into a fight and obviously they didn't wanna... have to get off the plane and miss their flight and not get home and... get their bags taken off that were already checked, and you know... but... took about a hour, but...

I: Wow... do you feel the media or social media has affected your opinions on the pandemic?
E: Uhhhhmmm... That's a good question. I mean, a lot of our information we do get from the media and from social... media. I think it has impacted a lot of peoples' opinion on the pandemic because I know a lot of people who didn't necessarily have such strong opinions about it and just with constant reinforcement through the media, their opinion got stronger and stronger and like I said, it got politicized so people that already, say for example... were so against Donald Trump or somethin'. You know, took the side that he's responsible for all these people dying... you know and that's why we have to take this so seriously. For example right now, I just heard that the R&B uhm... singer, Jeremiah is... is supposedly in the hospital... on a ventilator with COVID but the only real proof we have is from like a... an Instagram post that 50 Cent put out... that-that... that says he's got COVID. So now multiple media outlets are reporting that he's got COVID and they all say reportedly because it's all just coming from this one post by 50, so... Does he have it? I dunno. We don't know. But yeah, social media/the media is very powerful because one thing can be said and it's spread so fast... and then everybody sees it. And then whether they like what they see or know it to be true, the more you see it the more solidified it becomes.
I: Yeah...
E: You know... I mean it's two-- I mean it's 2020, there's 8 billion people in this world. Technology is so strong that we could spread positive messages that everyone could get it the exact same time but those messages aren't the ones that are spread-- it's-it's always the negative messages... Messages that divide us and... give us things to cling to that are opposite what other people believe as opposed to just trying to harmoniously bring everyone together, you know?
I: Yeah, come up with solutions.
E: Right.

I: Do you feel that your health is at risk due to COVID-19?
E: Good question. So early on there was a lot of people who strongly thought that, you know... everything about the virus might have been fake and then there was just so many deaths that were reported and there were so many deaths that probably would've been called medical malpractice but people weren't even attributing it to that. 'Cause the third leading cause of death every year is medical malpractice. A lot of people don't know that but almost 500,000 people die every year from medical malpractice and drug overdose or just erroneous prescriptions-- prescribing the wrong prescriptions but uhm... So early on if you questioned the virus at all, people would say, 'How dare you? How dare you think it's a fake virus?', you know, obviously there's a lot of people in the healthcare profession that'll tell you that it's real and they've encountered it and they've never seen anything like it. Uhm... and then at the same time there's a lot of people I know personally that've said that they've had it and they've... they've fought it off pretty quickly, so... I think it is a threat. I don't think it is a threat. I don't think it's a big threat to probably me or you-- given our age and our you know... health conditions but I think to people that who are already probably in a pretty bad health state with advanced age or whatever type of co-morbidities, I think it definitely can be a threat to them. Also like I said early on there was that big scare of if you contract it and spread it to someone who's more at risk, essentially you're killing them but we never had that feeling with like the flu, which kills so many people every year... You know, we never said, 'Oh, I'm sick with the flu', 'I can't go to work', or 'I have to wear a mask when I go outside', or 'I can't be around my loved one'... So all of our feelings in regard to all of this is just what's being told to us-- it's what's been showed to us from the media. Months in a row, everyday straight, the messages were just coming coming coming! I don't know if you've ever worked a sales job but...
I: Yeah.
E: Like... it was like everyday the death toll was just climbing on... on tv the same way at a sales job they would just be showing you the productivity numbers and trying to get you to beat it... beat out your coworkers to motivate you to keep selling. Here they were just motivating you to be afraid-- buy into whatever they're telling you. You know obviously this is my opinion but it... it was pretty strong messaging I... you know, it's hard to think anything else. And then at any point in time they could stop that and put out some other message if... if... if they're trying to talk about some other message if they're trying to talk about something else, whether it be the election... what have you, so...
I: Yeah... Seems like that everything regarding the virus is being propagated in that direction at this point.
E: My personal was that early on this seemed like a push for a vaccine and now that definitely seems like the case given that the vaccine is pretty much about to be out they said within 8 or 9 months from when the virus really first started. Whereas typical vaccines in the past have taken about 20 years to typically be created, and the fastest that one was ever made was in 4 years, back in the 60's, for the mumps. 
I: Wow...
E: So to have one now in less than a year, you know... they're saying it's 90% effective but... our own immune system is over 98% effective in just fighting it off in general so it almost seems as if they didn't want people to catch it, that's why they wanted us to stay home, that's why they wanted to lock us down, wanted to keep us socially distanced-- they didn't want us to catch it 'cause they knew most people would beat it and then there'd be less of a need for a vaccine.
I: Oh, understood.
E: And if you look... if you look online, I believe it's called Agenda 2030, uhm... which is part of the World Health Organization, clear as day you can find it on their website, it's part of this massive adult vaccination rollout that they've had in... mind for a long time. So they want adults to begin getting routinely vaccinated every year the same way children do.
I: Wow.
E: It's heavy. It's heavy stuff, you know? And... the term vaccine alone is...is so heated, it's so triggered because the World Health Organization has declared that not getting vaccinated or not getting your children vaccinated is one of the top global health risks... in the world, so basically they're telling you if you don't get your children vaccinated-- you're a threat to humanity... and that's... we've already seen it go as far as California which is the biggest state in the country, one out of seven people live in California just last year... and California is considered to be like the most progressive-- and one of the most liberal uhm... states in the country but just last year they've passed a law where you cannot send your children to public school if they don't get vaccinated. You could... You used to be able to be exempt through religious or personal or spiritual reasons and you can't do that anymore-- and they're trying to do that for home schooling and they're trying to do that for private schools, also.
I: Wow, that's pretty invasive.
E: Exactly! And they tried to pass that in Jersey and it didn't pass, but of course they're prolly gonna keep tryin'.

I: Are you concerned about anyone in your household regarding COVID?
E: So right now my household is me, my girlfriend, and my roommate. And my roommate, uhm... actually thought he had COVID at one point and kinda quarantined himself away from us. I mean it's a... It's like a split apartment so it's almost like two separate apartments. We're both on each side with our own kinda apartment but it's a shared uhhh kitchen but uhm... but again right now, he's quarantined himself because he's safe 'cause he's safe I don't think... he's tested negative every time but... and he's a young guy, so uhm... I don't think he was that worried but at the same time it's hard not to be worried right now just considering the climate for this past year. Uhm, I personally haven't been too worried. I feel like the mind is super strong. I think a lot of disease actually comes from the mind and just your overall state of being. So for example, if I started sneezing or had a cold and the word COVID even comes to my mind and I start to, you know, fixate on it... I... I think that would probably catastrophize and cause a decline in my health. I feel like if you stay more positive and if you try not to think about all these things that the media is telling us can't happen, you're better off, so...
I: Yeah, you know... sometimes thinking so makes it so.
E: Absolutely. And, you know... obviously that's why there are so many studies done where they have a placebo and there's people who actually don't have the disease or don't take the drug and still have the same effects because they thought they did.
I: Yeah. I always find that to be incredible because... people are thinking their way through it.
E: Absolutely.
I: I never lost faith in the human body's immune system.
E: It's eh, it's miraculous! You know! I've gone to you know, medical school and spent six months cutting over a cadaver and like... it's just unbelievable. We try to find all these names and all these things to the body but at the end of the day we can't come close to just how miraculously the body heals itself.
I: There was always like an occult uhm... theory that the sec... the mind is also in the gut, then a couple years ago I saw an article, I think it was from like... New Scientist or American Scientist and it said something like the new discover of the mind is also in the gut-- uhm... something about the gut instinct and the brain is also located in the gut-- something to that effect I don't remember exactly but... yeah. That was just... that's New Scientist or American Scientist that's been around for years just now, a couple years ago, releasing that information the public which I mean... it's kind of weird to me that it's been known but now they're just now releasing that data.
E: And that's why it's... there's... so many contradictions and inconsistencies with that because all year long you never had a shutdown with fast food, you never had a shutdown with liquor stores. There woul... There's never been this pressure from higher up to be healthy but all of a sudden they care about our health but... it's not... we're still being fed genetically modified food, fried food, greasy food, tons of sugar... all this stuff that clearly deteriorates our health and like you said that the mind is in the gut-- clearly it's deteriorating our mind. I mean, we already know that sugar deteriorates our mind; Lack of exercise, but... All they want us to do is wear a mask-- get locked into our house with no sunlight when like 90-some percent of people that died with COVID all were Vitamin-D deficient--
I: Mmm!
E: And the best place to get Vitamin-D is from the sun even though it's hard in the East Coast in the winter time. It's better than nothin'. It's so hard to believe that... all they want is for our best interest and yet look at all these other things that are neglected or pushed that are not for our best interest.

I: Do you think COVID-19 had any effect on your hygienic practices? 
E: Me, personally? No, because... you know... I'd already gone to med school and I already had all my supplies so when I enter a home, I'm washing my hands-- I'm already using hand sanitizer. But for a lot of other people, yeah-- I mean there's hand sanitizer everywhere right now. And that's another thing, I think it's become detrimental for some people because... like I was at the gym yesterday and there was a couple people... about to leave, it was about to close but... you know, they've become so anal about their cleaning so they had like three people walking around cleaning with like these HEAVY HEAVY cleaning products but there were still people there and they were right there, and so you're inhaling and... and touching all these cleaning products while you're still using this stuff. You know, like Clorox... and all that stuff is... should be used in moderation but if we're overdoing it... you're not supposed to use sanitizer like every two minutes, you know, this-this stuff breaks down your body's natural bacterias and... you know what I mean, I'm not a fan of a lot of chemicals to begin with but clearly breathing in harsh chemicals can have adverse reactions, so I think a lot of people think some of that stuff is safer than our own body and our own natural immune system and it's not.

I: Would you say the pandemic has had a positive effect or a negative effect on your life?
E: I mean so that's a good question because, you know, initially you said am I a glass half-empty or half-full type of guy and I... definitely would say half-full and... most people that know me would say half-full but there were times especially early on this year where... I definitely felt like I was less positive than I usually am... probably just 'cause it had personally affected me so much-- my job shut down for a few weeks and then it was... it became virtual for many months. I didn't start going back into the home until three months ago. Uhm... and then also I'd say the biggest thing is... Uhm... I dunno, you've seen the movie 'The Matrix', right? 
I: Yeah.
E: So it almost felt like the Matrix, like you know the more and more I would see stuff it would just... in my mind there was no shutting it off. It was like I woke up to what I felt is really going on and it was almost like you have that... you come to that realization-- would you rather know or would you rather not know? 'Cause when you know, you're fully awake and you can't stop seeing it but there's so many people who don't see it and won't even entertain a conversation so with seeing it, I'm referring to... to me... there's no way that... you could tell me that... the majority of what's going on right now is not a plan... is not a plan to some extent. You know, I can't tell you exactly why but like I said with the... with the mask, it's not about... it's not just about health, it's much more about the symbolism and control-- I believe. Because of how it's enforced, you know, because of now they're saying you can't catch it on a plane... that's crazy! You can't catch it while you're eating or drinking. Now in Newark they have Be Still Mondays so I guess it... it spreads more on a Monday and then they have a curfew at 8 o'clock so maybe during the day it's okay but after... 8 o'cli... it's just... a lot of this stuff is just so inconsistent and just contradicts a lot of stuff so to get back to your question if it's had a positive or negative effect on me, I mean I would say... unfortunately... more so negative but I hope positive can come out of it. I hope people can realize that somethin's... a little fishy going on. Early on you had T.V. doctors who didn't agree with it but then like... the next day they had to get on the network and apologize and completely make a 180. Same with LeBron, same with some doctors, same with some politicians because it's like... the fear of public opinion is too strong and you gotta do it in line with what's being... enforced, so... uhm... I don't know... strange times, you know... California right now they're saying Thanksgiving gatherings have to be outside, can only be six or ten people. Can't be longer than two hours... no singing... is allowed!
I: Wow!
E: It's weird stuff, bro. And then even in Newark right now, I work all over Newark all day everyday and I can only report what I'm seein' and what I'm hearin' and it's not bad right now... it's not. Supposedly back in April it-it... seemed like it was but everyone was locked inside and that was just weird but right now if you watch the news, they're telling you that Newark is exploding with COVID and 30% of Newark is affected or infected but... that's so weird because like early on they were just reporting the death count and was like, 'This is how many cases there are... This is how many deaths there are...', everyday just kept goin' up, goin' up, goin' up and then that stopped and then the deaths all went down. So now they... a while now they've just been recording cases. That doesn't even mean that someone's sick. So many times I hear, 'Oh, I know this person. They got COVID.', I'm like, 'Are they sick?', 'No but they tested positive.', it's like, 'What does that mean, exactly?', 'cause we know early on, and they don't really talk about it now as much now but there were so many reports before that the tests were so grossly inaccurate. There were so many false positives, there were so many false negatives-- if you read the test itself, it tells you that if you test positive that you could just be testing positive for a common cold.
I: Wow!
E: What happened to common colds? What happened to the flu? Last year in November, a lot of people had the flu, a lot of people had a cold. 
I: Yeah.
E: You don't hear about that now. If someone's sick right now, it's COVID.
I: Mmmhmm.
E: It's the only thing they're sick with so it's just... it's just very very strange.

I: Yeah, I agree. So where do you consider yourself to be on the scale from authoritarian to libertarian?
E: Uhm... Gosh... Political scale, so... Aside from that question, I've been shamed so much in the past few months by people for not voting in this recent election because I just really did not strongly feel that voting for either candidate was... was at all beneficial. Ya... My whole life I was raised-conditioned Democrat and just this past year more than ever, I've realized in my mind that both parties are pretty much the same. They're both, bottom-line, are cut from the same capitalistic cloth. You know... and as long as capitalism is the... ruling force... they'll both do the same things with a couple different slants... so... I dunno that just triggered the... the word 'political' but... authoritarian, libertarian... <sigh> There definitely too much control coming from... higher up, you know... certain people's businesses were forced to shut down. They were told that they weren't essential compared to others. I mean who, who is anyone to make that determination that someone's livelihood of you know... bringing home food to their family and providing for the family is essential compared to someone else's... I don't... I don't think that's fair.
I: I agree.
E: And now they're talkin' bout Operation Warp-speed, so the military is now going to be responsible for distributing a vaccine and they got... what is it-- the New York Bar Association of Lawyers is... is voting right now on whether or not the vaccine will be... have to be mandatory to take... Yeah, there's already too much authoritarian... authoritarian control and hopefully that doesn't continue to increase.
I: Yeah... so... now... on the flip side of that, where on the political spectrum from liberal to conservative to you see yourself?
E: So like I uhm... My whole life I had voted liberal, I had considered myself liberal... But... I think the gist of it is that liberal is more government control, uhm... and so seeing what's happening this past year, I've probably become less liberal. I would... still wouldn't consider myself conservative...
E: Yeah... Seems to be... Maybe you're more for the individual than the collective.
I: Uhmmm... it's tricky. I mean, a lot of people who know me would say that I would, you know... would love socialism to take place and I would but it just doesn't... I just don't know how it would make sense, 'cuz I feel personally that there's enough natural resources on this planet that everyone could cohabitate it you know... very well... and... and no one would have to starve and everyone would get the surplus that they needed but... that being said, who is gonna-- where is gonna be the motivation for someone to... to do certain things that may be are a little harder than others if they're... not getting more... especially because we already have that mentality that... that you know-- you reap what you sow. So... I don't know. It's tricky but uhm... I just think there's too much government control right now.

I: Uh... Do you think that you'll find a cure for COVID-19 soon?
E: Aheh, Do we have a cure for AIDS? Do we a cure for the flu? I mean... I don't know, it seem like... it seems like the major cure is to not put the majority on ventilators and uhm... or... or... our-own natural immune system for... at least 99% of people. You know, I know... I have friends that say, 'I'm not gonna travel again until they come out with 'COVID Cold & Flu!'', yeah, I've heard that. As if, as if they think that these regular prescription drugs or over the counter drugs actually help and don't just mask the symptoms... Uhm, I think... I think hopefully... so you-you mentioned was this negative or positive... I think hopefully it'll have a positive impact on everyone just to live a healthier lifestyle and to be more conscious that health is wealth and to take everything seriously, you know... Nobody should be you know... grossly overweight if it's really impacting your body's ability to... to do what it needs to do, uhm... Hopefully people really take their health more seriously.

I: Indeed. So now you mentioned New York BAR or the attorneys with the BAR within New York... So do you believe that legality and morality are equal?
E: Uhmmmm... no... I don't.
I: Okay, why not?
E: I mean, I think certain laws get passed and... and that's considered what it is... it's the law and that's what we have to follow but morality isn't necessarily judged or weighed according to that law passing. I think... sometimes there's corporate influence or just... you know, personal biases causing... causing that to get where it is.

I: Oh okay... Do you feel that the local government is limiting your freedom?
E: Uhm... Yeah. I do! Uhm, especially with the mask... because like I said-- I actually was... was trained for years on wearing... personal protective equipment, masks being part of that, you know... and there was a point in time during this pandemic when I walked outside... to walk my dog... I was outside of my building, there was no-one around and there was a cop that was right there on the loudspeaker in his car and s... and he said you know he said, 'Go back inside- Put'cha mask on.', and it's like... it's it's... it's crazy! If there's no one else arou... you know... there's people that are wearing masks when they're outside all by themselves like... Get some fresh air! 
I: Yeah...
E: You know? Take that dirty piece of cloth or whatever off your face! 
I: Mmmhmm... and do you agree with the local guidelines from the government-- I mean the safety guidelines from the government?
E: Uhm... most of 'em, no. Most of them, I don't. Like I said, it seems like it's more about control than actual help. Like I said, they... they've told us what businesses are essential and what business aren't... I don't understand why liquor stores have been deemed essential this whole time and gyms aren't... You know, my building gym has been closed since March. I'm still not allowed to... enter my building gym. The Blink up the street just closed back down this week because they said cases are too high. But... all the studies coming out right now are telling you that... if your overall exercise, uh, your overall fitness level, your overall aerobic capacity and everything linked to exercising is... increasing your ability-- your body's ability to fight COVID then why is there not a push for us to be workin' out?
I: Yeah.
E: And for a lot of people, the gym is the only place they know how to work out and it's the only place that has the equipment for them to workout. It's part of the space.
I: You know, ahhhmm... My mentor... he's... he's a PhD in Ma-mathematics... and every time we do a Zoom call or something like that, he'd ask me what the... what the numbers are... When--when COVID first occurred, and the lockdowns were happening... So I'm... normally I was more concern't with local and I didn't care about what was going on around... like the rest of the country. I was just like, 'Aiight... New Jersey, if we're on lockdown or whatever or between New York and New Jersey, I'm just gonna look at all this and see what it is.', so I noticed that that's kind of like halted, they weren't really that high for... for Somerset... but up north, like Morristown for example, I know a guy who lost six... six extended family members to COVID. They were generally pretty old... Uhm... Yeah... The numbers seem to be a little weird. Uhm, I haven't noticed that the deaths have creeped up any at all so I guess... I guess the... medical industry is getting some kind of footing in maintaining people who are infected or... there's no progression of it anymore-- something like that.
E: Right, I mean that's how it seems. And you saying that-- I'm sorry to hear that and that's... I'm sorry to hear that but it's something like that, that's caused a lot of hostility between people and a lot of divisiveness uhm... because a lot of people would just call someone insensitive it they say they don't like uhm... having to wear mask or they don't feel like any of this makes sense. Someone else would say, 'Hey, I just lost six family members. How dare you be so insensitive?' You know, know... this is death we're talking about so... Death is just so sensationalized... uhm... you know... and the crazy thing is not like people weren't dying before this but this year being locked down in our house, constantly watching t.v. or hearing through the media about the rising death count, we've never experienced that before even though eight thousand-nine thousand people die everyday in this country. We never talk about that. We don't talk about that. We don't talk about the death rate so what's fascinating to me is if you search the Center for Disease Control website or any other websites that track this date-- as of right now, we're not in abundance; There's no surplus of deaths this year compared to... last year, considering the birth rate. The death rate is on par with the birth rate as compared to the past few years. The birth rate's gone up a little so the death rate naturally should go up a bit but it's not any higher... proportionately than it... than it was last year, which is mind boggling because the way that they've spun it is that we've had so many excess deaths this year from this virus but... the... like I said the amount of deaths this year is the same that it would have been without the virus... It's just some heavy stuff.
I: Hmmm... And like... when people say things like, 'Ohhh! They're insensitive for not wearing a mask or whatever-whatever.', or 'Why don't they wear it?', I try to tell them, you know, 'People don't want to be told how to live because they don't want to be instructed how to die.'
E: Right. 
I: Y'na'mean, so...
E: Absolutely, and then... It's like telling someone not to eat a hamburger, or telling someone not to smoke a cigarette, or telling someone they have to workout. Like... you have no justification in telling someone what or what not to do in their life. You don't know what they're doing for the majority of their time and they don't know what you're doing. And... like you said, if someone's telling someone not to wear a mask and that's... they say that's being dangerous but... for all we know that person you know... just... I dunno ate... five pounds of bacon or I guess... it's just crazy.

I: Mmmhmm... So do you believe that the government should have a say in your health?
E: That's a good question... Uhm... Whether I believe it or not, they do! Because they allow all types of pollutants. They allow all types of genetically modified foods that other governments don't allow, uhm... Just seeing what I've seen, I don't believe they should have control over it. I mean, obviously I've seen that they do certain things that are detrimental to my health. So... I don't think that they should have power to control certain things that I would want to do.

I: What is your definition of freedom?
E: Uhm, so... Interestin' enough, I remember a poster... in my guidance counselor's office when I was young and it said, 'Freedom is only a word until you lose it.', so I think for a lot of people, freedom doesn't really mean much when they have it because they're so used to havin' it. But... if you lose it, you realize, 'Wow, it's more than just a word!', so what do I believe freedom is? It's the ability to like you said, live your life how you wanna your life because ultimately, you're gonna die how you die.

I: So do you think the government should limit people's freedom in the interest of the community?
E: No! Because I think they pick and choose when it's... convenient for them.

I: So what do you think the involvement of a government should be during a pandemic?
E: Man... That's a good-- that's a good question... The opposite of what it's been this past year. I mean... it's-- it's tough, 'cuz... You know, early on we had so many messages coming across the t.v. from Bill Gates and you don't see that at all anymore, it's like, 'Why?', you know?  It's like, I mean, I think It seems the majority or a lot of people you would see on social media and stuff were... thinking that he was behind it all. And therefore they thought that maybe putting him as the spokesperson for it was just... would get negative press but uhm... I dunno, you would hope the government would inform its citizens with factual information and... and do so just to keep everyone healthy, but clearly they've shown they have the power... to take over and say what we are and aren't allowed to do-- say what businesses are and aren't essential... Uhm... And that's scary. So obviously some people totally trust in the government, other people totally revolt and... think that it's completely false and... and dangerous but... if you look at past trends, you know that the government wasn't always it-- for our best interest. It's just... It's ehh.. It's tricky.

I: Indeed. So what do you think the limit of their reach should be?
E: Uhm... So for instance, right now, Biden's trying to mandate that every... governor and mayor... you know, mandates masks so that... you would be fined or possibly arrested if you're not wearing masks when you need to be wearing them. I think that's too much! ... I think that's too much. If... if private businesses want to enforce suh'm like that, they have the right to but... you know, who's to tell you when you're walking outside, 'You need to have a mask on!'? That's... And like I said, it's not about if your mask is clean or not. It's not about if your hands are clean... It's not about if you're sick! ... You know, this is literally a virus that... supposedly, uhm... at one point they were saying that it's most commonly spread from asymptomatic spreaders, now they've gone away from that. If you're asymptomatic, for the most part, that means that you're healthy. You know... I mean, clearly you could... possibly have somethin' and it's... it's... you know, you just got it and maybe you're still spreadin' it and you're... you're not showing symptoms but that's not common; What's common is if you're sick, and you're coughing, and you're sneezing, that's when you're spreading it. And you've got so many people who aren't sick but... they tested positive so now their mind is makin' them sick. You know, because there's so much time in a day, you know, there's 24 and if you're constantly catastrophizing, and seeing this on the news, and hearing how many people died, and knowing how scared and deadly it is... and... staying away from your family. It's like... so... There was all this talk about how, you know, healthcare workers who were the real heroes. And don't get me wrong, it was brave of them to go to work during a time when everything was so crazy and there was so much sensationalized death all over the news, and all over prolly their hospital where they were workin'. But... you've got a lot of... say for example, nurses, that normally, are not necessarily the best at their jobs. You know, there are a lot of people in every industry who are in it for the wrong reasons... or just fed up or... just trying to get by. You know, just trying to do the least to... get through the day. So... the fact that you had a lot of nurses to begin with, you know, not to take anything away from nurses-- there's a lot of great nurses but you're gonna have some that really are on their phone the majority of the day... and just doing the bare minimum. You know? Then add to the fact that they're being told that this disease is so crazy and people are dying so fast-- so they're gonna be scared. So they're naturally gonna stay away from their patients more than they would anyway, and, they can't be around their-- they're being told that they can't be around their family for weeks-- they gotta quarantine everything, so they're even more upset and more discouraged to even go to work. So the ones that are going to work and the ones that weren't that good to begin with-- are now neglecting their patients more than ever. And that's what happened. I know a lot of people that work in nursing homes and hospitals... and they were telling me early on when all these deaths were happening, that the amount of neglect that was going on was just crazy. There was... patients that literally were being left alone in their room. They were being intuited with tubes that would come out of the room and people wouldn't even go into the rooms because they were so scared... They were so scared to contract this potentially fatal-contagious disease... so these people were dyin' alone. You know, and what's worse than that? Their families weren't allowed there... Uhm... It was just... it was just horrible. Everything about it was just horrible. Had they had the decision to maybe be around their family or maybe be around the family or be... but they didn't have that decision because they were being told that this was so contagious... and it was-- it was just scary. And I'm sure that it lead to a lot more deaths than what'd normally happen. Also, take into account, that uhm... hold on one second... And then you had... then you had mandates coming from like Cuomo and Phil Murphy, that these nursing homes had to take patients from the hospital that had COVID even though there were no patients in the nursing home already that had COVID when we knew that it was contagious and we knew that the most susceptible person was the older, sicker population. And that... by doing so, so many people ended up catching it in the nursing home that didn't already have it and where a lot of these deaths happened, was in side of these nursing homes, where so much neglect was happening, so... I mean in hindsight, it was... it was really being mismanaged but none of that is really being talked about... 
I: Yeah, I don't see much about it which is... pretty mind boggling to me.
E: You know, and just to bring light onto a different subject, so, for example, as much as was talked about police brutality this year-- which clearly is an issue-- let's just go over the numbers real quick. There's about 600,000 police officers and I think about 1,000 on average every year are killed by the police. Most of them are unarmed... but... I mean most of them are armed-- maybe 50 unarmed by the police. That's still too many but... clearly there's some cops that are... should not be cops. And the whole police force in itself is a very strange system and has strange roots and needs to be changed. But there was so much talk about that and so much revolt against that... Where is all that energy when it comes to what's going on with these hospitals, 'cuz you've got only about 100,000 doctors that kill about 5,000 every year. They don't do it on purpose but it happens. It's neglect, it's malpractice, it's... prescribing the wrong things-- that's why they have so much medical malpractice insurance and that's why it's the third leading cause of death. But so, we're talkin' about 500,000 people that died at the hands of 100,000 people compared to about 1,000 that died to the hands of 600,000, and there's no uhm upheaval, no type of revolt, no type of talk about that. Instead, all these doctors are being revered as heroes... and all these cops are pretty much being revered as killers or complicit because they don't speak out. And like I said, a lot of that is true but... it's just crazy the two dynamics... and there's no light shed on the other one. 

I: Mmm... What do you think about politics taking the stage during the pandemic?
E: It doesn't make any sense! Like I said, it was politicized early on. It's absolutely crazy. Really have... you have conservative news stations that are putting Trump on a pedestal and... a lot of them are antimask... and a lot of them are saying that the numbers exaggerated and then you have a lot of the liberal media outlets that are blaming Trump singlehandedly for the 230-someodd-thousand deaths that're... and still climbing, and saying, 'Masks are absolutely needed', and... it's just crazy how it's literally cut in-half and it almost became a Republican vs Democrat virus, depending on how you looked at it.

I: Indeed. 
E: Very strange!

I: So do you think that the payment protection and stimulus checks were necessary?
E: There was only one, right?
I: I think... there was only... one. I think there might've been two.
E: I think there was only... There was only one! There was one stimulus! One twelve-hundred dollar stimulus payment this entire time. They definitely gave more unemployment than usual. Uhm, unemployment lasted longer, unemployment was more, and it was easier to get. I do think it was helpful for a lot of people. I think a lot of people became kinda dependent on it that didn't necessarily need it but it they needed it, it was great. It's just so odd that throughout all this, real estate prices haven't dropped yet, the stock market's still climbing... Uhm... it's strange. A lot of businesses were hurt, and were hit. A lot of people did lose their jobs. A lot of people had been forced to take jobs that paid less because Telehealth, well, uh, virtual... well, working from home-- whatever the correct term for it... has become so much more popular. So you have people... that were working a job before, so you have New York City... and now the company is hiring people in Pennsylvania, they know they don't have to pay as much because the cost of living is less. So there's been a big... push to move outside of expensive urban areas.
I: Yeah.
E: And uhm... and supposedly, the foreclosure market or a lot of foreclosures are starting to take place. If that's true then prices will come down and... 
I: Yeah, I was kind of expecting that.
E: And it's weird because a lot of big economists said-- predicted a recession prior to the virus and then it's like as soon as the virus hit, they say, 'Whoa! Here comes a recession! The economy is being hit!", before the virus.
I: It's a strange situation.
E: Been a strange, yeah!

I: I mean if you were a state or government official, what are some of the changes that you would make to the COVID-19 guidelines?
E: <sigh> Man, it's tough. It's tough because there's so many... contradictions and inconsistencies, like early on-- supposedly Fauci is the go-to guy and early on he said this is nothing to worry about-- obviously he changed his tune. And early on he said we don't need to wear masks! But then when he said that we do need to wear masks, his reasoning behind him originally saying to not wear masks was so strange because he said... you know, originally he told us not to wear masks because there was a shortage of PP for healthcare workers that needed it the most and he didn't want the average person to go out and hoard the supplies that the healthcare workers needed more... it's so weird that he said that because he said that cloth masks are just as beneficial. He could've early on to just wear cloth masks. You know, it just doesn't make any sense.

I: So in light of the whole situation-- the pandemic, COVID-19, all that... What are some of your most positive experiences?
E: Uhm... Probably having deep conversations with people. Uhm... You know, somebody said the other day that someone they know... I think one of his family members was dealing with something and he said but... He hasn't... you know, talked to them in two years. I was like, 'Hey man, I'm sorry to hear that but you know, in my personal interpretation- if you didn't... if you have anyone in your life you didn't talk to this year, you guys probably aren't really that close or you should go ahead and reach out to them because... it's been a pretty trying year. So I think this year has probably brought a lot of people back into other people's lives that... you know, show that they wanted to be there because... it's been a strange year! You know, it's been a bleak year, it's been a year where nothing seems certain, so... some of the positive things, I would say, is just gonna bring certain people together and probably opening up certain people's minds to what's most important. Like I said, hopefully everyone takes their health more importantly than they had been if they weren't prior. And just their life in general, you know, life is... is not promised. You know, we sensationalize death but... unfortunately, it's the only thing in life that's promised. You know? So... you gotta live it. We gotta live the life we got because who knows when it's gonna stop, so.
I: You're right.

I: I've just got a few questions... [two] questions such as what is your age?
E: Uhm, 36
I: Okay, and your sex?
E: Male.
I: And your race?
E: I guess uh... I guess Caucasian.




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